The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness. -R.A. Heinlein

Tuesday, November 2, 2010

Rebuttal: Tough questions for Christians, questions 1-10

There is a series on youtube called "Tough Questions for Christians." I believe God is calling me to answer these questions, by His grace, and the wisdom He grants. This post will cover questions 1-10.

Question 1:

A few things that stand out before we get to the question:

1. In the analogy, he did not pursue the person who hit the car. Jesus (who is God) does pursue us actively. He reveals Himself to us through His word, the Bible, as well as with His creation, and the conscience He gave us to tell right from wrong.

2. At the end he says, "You could hit my car tomorrow, die within 24 hours, and Jesus and God could sentence you to hell because you hit the car, and drove away; and didn't ask them for forgiveness before you died." Well, yes, and no...without Jesus saving grace, then yes, you'd be sentenced for that and every other sin you committed. However, if you have been saved by Jesus, you are set free. It is not up to us to ask forgiveness of every single sin we committed, and if we missed one, we don't go to hell for it. Jesus paid it all, it is not by our works.

3. "Jesus and God" No, Jesus is God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons, but one God.

Now the question: "Why is God powerless to forgive you after you're dead?"

God is just. How can He go against His nature, and deny Himself? He cannot permit evil to remain. He had every right to just send everyone to hell, to not save anyone, and just start over. He didn't give a plan of salvation for the demons, He could have done the same for us. Yes, you do have one life time, then comes judgement. That is God's plan, He has every right to make it so. He has told us that is the plan, He gives us the opportunity to accept His love, if you die rejecting that love, then you will go to hell. He must carry out justice, and must follow through with what He said He would do.

Question 2:

Before we get to the question:

"Christ died for the sins of all mankind" Armenians would hold this to be true. References such as Romans 5:18 are used to back this up, "Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men." (ESV).  Calvinists would say, no, Christ died for the elect. References such as Romans 8:29-30 are used to back this up, "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first born among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." (ESV) For more information on this particular difference between Calvinism and Armenianism, I'd suggest this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3yZMlempDw specifically 28 minutes in. Lots of heated debate on the subject. 

On his analogy of the fine in court: Think of it this way. He must pay a fine. Someone (Jesus) steps in, and says I will pay this fine. The judge says, that would be acceptable, but he pipes up and starts fighting Jesus, wanting to pay it himself. Eventually Jesus says ok, I was willing, but you rejected it, you can now pay your fine. 

"Now I know, I know, God and Jesus same person." Ehh.....sorta....God is three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are one God. Wanted to make sure it was clear just in case.

"If God doesn't accept Him, He'll send you to hell. If God does accept Him, then He'll send Jesus to Hell. Which supposedly He's already done, Jesus's finished and come back again." Here's something that is definitely wrong. Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus went to hell? Why would Jesus have to go to hell? He paid for our sins on the cross, when the wrath of God was turned on Him, and He was completely cut off from God. John 19:30 "When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, 'It is finished,' and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." (ESV) So, I take this to mean, it was complete, our sins were paid for. If I am mistaken, please leave a comment below.  Also, what did Jesus say to the criminal next to Him on the cross? Luke 23:43 "And he said to him, 'Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

Now the question: "If God accepted Jesus' sacrifice as payment for the sins of mankind, then why will man kind still be punished for the sins that Jesus paid for?"

It is a good question, and one I think can only be answered by, Christ did not die for all, only for the elect. However, we do not know who the elect are, so we must treat everyone as if they were elect, and spread God's word to all. I do not claim to be either Calvinist, nor Armenian, I believe they both have valid arguments, and that way to much devision is made over the two thoughts. I try to base my beliefs off what the scriptures say. In this case, I believe they say that Christ died for the elect. I know this is dangerous territory, but that's what I believe to be true. If you can prove otherwise through scripture, please do so.

Question 3:

"What is the point of God giving us free-will if we're not allowed to use it?"

This is assuming that all free will is evil thoughts. That free will is the opposite of God's will. Though it normally is, it does not have to be. When Christ gets a hold of a heart, He doesn't just save it, He changes it. He gives new desires, the flesh no longer pleases the same way it did before. It is literally a new heart. You are still allowed to choose, but it'd be like saying to choose between eating feces or eating good food. It's not really a hard option, but you still have the will to choose.

Question 4:

"Do you really think you DESERVE to be tortured?"

Well, if Christ had not gotten a hold of my heart and saved me, then yes, torture is exactly what I deserve. Would it be pleasant? No, that's the point. It's not like God hasn't given everyone an equal chance to be saved. Those that choose to continue on sinning and rejecting Him get what they're asking for. He keeps saying that His way is the truly enjoyable way, yet they want the world, and so, He lets them taste it. But even after tasting it, they only want more, and so, He continues to call them, but, at one point, His patience runs out. They die, and then they will get what they have been heading for for quite some time.

Question 5:

A few things before we get to the question:

"It's really not a great deterrent either, because, if you don't already believe in hell, then it's not going to deter you from doing anything." What's a fairly common, if not the number one, response if you ask someone why God should let them into heaven? "Because I'm a good person." This implies that they do good works and don't do bad works, to stay out of hell. So, I'm going to have to say that it is a deterrent.

"In heaven, we shouldn't be able to be killed, we're already dead, and theoretically, we shouldn't be able to be injured, there's not really anything you're needing to be protected from. So, sending someone to hell doesn't protect the rest of the souls in heaven either." I haven't seen anything in the bible about not being able to be injured in heaven. Also, this statement is ignoring the fact that heaven does not make everyone perfect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that he assumes that while in heave everyone would act civil just because they're in heaven. This is not the case. Christ changes us, Christ makes us perfect. When we die and go to heaven, our perfection will be made complete by Him, however, if someone dies, without Christ in their heart, they are not changed. Would it be just to send someone to heaven who was still rebelling against God? Remember, we are the problem, Jesus is the answer. Without Him, the problem still exists.

Now the question: "What is the purpose of hell?"

As both a deterrent and to protect those in heaven, as well as to enact the justice God has promised to enact on those who do not accept Him. He is just, and will carry out what He has said He will do.

Question 6:

A few things before we get to the question:
"God was thwarted right from the beginning." No....God is all knowing, and all powerful. The man and women rebelled against Him, and He knew it was going to happen. For some amazing reason, He still loved us enough to let us hurt Him.

"And they grew worse and worse and worse, until finally the merciful God decided to drown them all." He had every right to destroy every last one of us and start over, but He didn't. By grace, He allowed Noah, a sinning man, to live. He chalks this up to be God's failure, but is it His failure, or just another way in which He shows Himself? Does He not show His great compassion through this? Isn't it a warning as well as to the fact that we are evil?

"Since He couldn't focus on everyone, He'd focus on a small group." No....He chose a small group of people to represent Himself. It was His plan. Who are we to question it? He chooses what will reveal His glory most effectively. God doesn't make mistakes. Everything happens at the perfect time, in the perfect way.


"He couldn't succeed with everyone, and He couldn't succeed with the descendants of Abraham either, His chosen people were captured by the Egyptians and they were lead into slavery for 400 years." And if they had not been in slavery, the 7 plagues would not have come on Egypt, the passover would not have happened, pharaohs army would not have been destroyed in the red sea, etc etc etc. It is His plan, all things work together for good. What we see as a failure is just another event along the road.

"Yet again He failed, the people hated Him." Failed at what? Getting them to like Him? Might I submit, that that wasn't His goal. His goal was to bring glory to Himself, and show the world that Israel was His chosen people.

Throughout the video, he continues to insist that there were no schools, or other things that would indicate society. What of the ancient Hebrew writings that are found? Why must we assume that there were no schools? Yes, the bible doesn't say that there where any, but it also doesn't say that there weren't.

I'd like to know how we as humans failing translates into God's failures, because that's my understanding of what was said in the video. He offers us life, we reject Him and follow the world. He says to serve Him, we served ashera and baal. He shows that the scriptures pointed towards Him, we killed Him. But with each of our blunders, God brought about good.

And now the question: "Is the Bible, with the repeated stories of God's failures, a true history of a PERFECT being?"

Now that's a trap if I ever saw one. That question assumes that everything we did wrong was God's failures. God is all powerful, could He have forced us to do whatever He wanted us to do? You betcha, but He chose to leave us freewill. It is a story of His love, a love so great, He's willing to still love us even when we reject Him. Can we really say that this is God's failure because He has given us multiple chances to return to Him?

Question 7:


"Why doesn't God give everyone the same amount of evidence as he gave Thomas?"

Perhaps that is why the story of Thomas doubting is in the Bible. For those who doubt so much. If Thomas had to go through that much proof to believe it, then there is no question about it. He felt Jesus hands and feet, he was satisfied. Someone who doubted that much to believe, should make it plain to everyone that it is indeed true.

Question 8:


"Why is God only willing to give extraordinary evidence to some people, instead of giving the same degree of proof to everyone?"

Through God's word, we do get the same amount of evidence. What else would explain, a man so bent on destroying the early church, then changing, being persecuted himself, tortured, and eventually executed for the very thing he was originally attempting to destroy? It gives Christ glory, to see how much a person changes when Christ gets a hold of the heart!

Bonus question: "Did God take away Paul's freewill when he revealed himself?"

No, Paul still could have said no. It would have been stupid, but he still could have. You see, when you see Christ for who He truly is, why would you want to serve anyone else? On top of that, when you accept Christ into your heart, He literally gives you a new heart. It's a complete change. The old desires do not give you the same pleasure they once did, and He gives you new desires. It feels so right when you live your life for Christ.

Question 9:


A few things before we get to the question:

"If God had made sin as distasteful or unpleasant as stabbing yourself, slamming your fingers in the door, or eating cat feces; then the entire world would be for the most part saved." God did not create sin. Sin came into the world when we rejected Him. Evil is the absence of God. When Christ grabs hold of your heart, sin truly does become that unpleasant. A heart changed by Christ can never look at sin the same way again.

"God went so far as to put massive amounts of nerve endings on the reproductive organs, and then penalize people for using them. I mean seriously, having sex in anyway, for anything other than procreation is suddenly sinful and abhorring. You can't do it, you shouldn't do it, it's bad." No, He put them there for our enjoyment, when used in a way that's pleasing to Him. Meaning, within a marriage, it is perfectly ok to have intimacy. That is how God intended it, for a man and his wife to enjoy each other. As to the bit about having sex in anyway other than procreation, most people will point towards Genesis 38:8-10, "Then Judah said to Onan, 'Go into your brother's wife and perform your duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother. "But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother's wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother. And what he did was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also." Ahh, see? Wasting the seed is evil, therefore, birth control is evil, etc etc. No, this is because he was not fulfilling his duty, and was being selfish towards his brothers wife. On top of that, he was disobeying his father. I suggest reading the Song of Solomon, pages of intimacy, no mention of having children. Mars Hill Church has a very good series on it: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/the-peasant-princess/preview

Now the question: "If God didn't want us to sin, why did he make sinning feel good?"

As stated above, God did not create sin, and when someone is changed by Christ sin does not feel good whatsoever.

Question 10:


"Was Jesus' sacrifice to insignificant to please God? If not, why does God reinstate animal sacrifices?"

No, Jesus' payment was the final payment, all animal sacrifices were merely analogies of what was to come. The sacrifices here are meant for the near future, not after the final battle. Why would God give instructions to Ezekiel on how to divide the land if everything was already complete? If you read Ezekiel, there was a break between the vision about the last battle, and the vision about the building of the temple. These are two separate thoughts, there is no reason to assume they are chronological events.

That's all for now, hopefully soon, the next post will be out. There are about 36 videos that he's made from what I can see.

4 comments:

  1. Sheepdog, you did an excellent job responding to his questions I can only add to what you already had
    A. the analogy is wrong. (as you pointed out)
    When he doesn't include the idea that we have originally rebelled, and _refused_ God when given the chance, he makes God seem like a twisted sadist. However, since God HAS given us a chance, and is actively trying to pursue us, and save us, this when judgement day comes, God will ALLOW you to have your free will. Remember, you have chosen NOT to make things write with God, even though you know what you did was wrong. God is not "sending you to hell" you are sending _yourself_ to hell.

    B. Why is God powerless to save us after we've died? Well, he's not. Us "dieing" doesn't change his ability to save he. He has already given us a certain amount of time, to respond to his offer of grace and forgiveness, BUT he will not force us to accept the offer. Thus is we refuse it, God will allow us to experience the consequences. He power has not changed with us die, its simply that at that point, we've used up all our time, and still actively rejected God.

    C. Even if his analogy is correct, (God dosen't try to save us) what we received at judgement "day" would be excalty what we deserved. We rebelled, and some want back. We didn't find God, thats not God's problem, or his fault, ITS OURS. Since we left God has no duty to save us, but he still choose to. That is what makes the gospel so amazing.

    to sum it up, the analogy is flawed, but even if it wasn't it would still be just.
    We send ourselves to hell with our rebellion, not God, and thus we are responsible with our fate, not God.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Question 2
    I however, whole heartedly disagree with you in your response to question 2. Here is how I'd respond to it.
    "If God accepted Jesus' sacrifice as payment for the sins of mankind, then why will man kind still be punished for the sins that Jesus paid for?"

    It goes back to the sovereignty of man. God will NOT force us to accept the grace we have been given. Lets use the court analogy again.
    You have to pay a fine, but Jesus offers to pay it for you. You tell him no, but he gives you the necessary funds to pay for it. You still insist that you need to pay for it with your OWN money, and in the end, you do. You pay the fine with your money, (ie, your spend eternity in hell)
    Thus to sum it up, just because Jesus have given us the gift of grace, and given us the ability to be right with God, doesn't mean we've got to accept it. He will not force us to use his payment to pay God. We can still use our life instead.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hmmm....I like your answer to number two better.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Greetings

    On the subject of
    "Jesus is God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons, but one God."

    I recommend this video:
    The Human Jesus

    Take a couple of hours to watch it; and prayerfully it will aid you in your quest for truth.

    Yours In Messiah
    Adam Pastor

    ReplyDelete

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